Ed Reed from Fair Count on the importance of the US Census

Ed Reed from Fair Count joins us to discuss their outreach and community infrastructure programs to increase awareness and participation in the 2020 Census. Fair Count is a non-profit with a mission to engage hard to count communities in the US Census through outreach and education.

  • They are also doing the groundwork the strengthen communities through civil engagement and providing infrastructure in communities that will be available for use long after the Census is complete.
  • Programs: Field, Community, Faith, Technology, Black Men Count
  • Importance of census: Over $1 Trillion dollars of Federal funding to states, cities and towns that are used to allocate funds for Education, Healthcare, Infrastructure
  • Difficulty collecting accurate data: myths about participation in the census and providing info to the government, Citizenship concerns. Collecting data on homeless and transient population.
  • Everyone breathing on April 1st should be counted on the census, no matter where you are living or staying.
  • Confusion over apartment dwellers, group quarters such as assisted living facilities, university students: on-campus vs. off-campus housing
  • Fair and accurate counts means for funding for political representation for these communities that are sometimes left out of the process.
  • Get involved: Paid opportunities – https://www.faircount.org/careers/
  • Get involved: Volunteer opportunities – https://www.faircount.org/commit-to-be-counted/
  • Participate in the 2020 Census today: https://www.census.gov/

Transcript Follows:

Susan Cooper  0:00
Welcome to Inclusion Catalyst with your hosts Mickey Desai and Susan Cooper. We invite diversity leaders to the table to deconstruct complex social justice issues and showcase the best inclusion practices in our workplaces and our communities.

Mickey Desai  0:16
Hello, this is Mickey Desai your host for this episode of the Inclusion Catalyst. I have on the line my co host, Susan Cooper. Susan, are you there?

Susan Cooper  0:24
Yes. Hello everyone.

Mickey Desai  0:25
And our guest for today we’re very pleased to be talking with Ed Reed. Ed is a Virginia native with over a decade of experience in state and federal politics, nonprofit organizing and state government. Ed served as the chief of staff in the Virginia Lieutenant Governor’s office, where he also managed the successful transition of administration, he became the first African American in Virginia’s history to serve in that role. Previously, he served as a Legislative staffer in the Virginia House of Delegates and the Senate of Virginia respectively.  Ed currently serves as the Program Director at Fair Count Inc. based in Atlanta, Georgia. At Fair Count. He is the staff liaison for the Black Men Count Initiative. He cultivates relationships between Fair Count and community based partners. And he supervises the Faith, Technology and Field programs. Ed, how are you thank you for joining us.

Ed Reed  1:09
I’m doing well. Glad to be on. Thank you for having me.

Mickey Desai  1:12
How did you get involved with Fair Count?

Ed Reed  1:16
Yeah, so you know, Fair Count is a relatively newer nonprofit organization on the scene and I did a little bit of research and was a little bit interested in the 2020 Census. And it was a new nonprofit that was looking to engage some hard to count communities, particularly in Georgia at the time. And so I, you know, did a little bit of research found out that it was hit, I had mirrored interest and just kind of went from there. I actually started with Fair Count as a Community Coordinator and then moved into the Program Director a little bit later.

Susan Cooper  1:50
So I’d like to maybe back up just a little bit. Can you tell our listeners what is Fair Count for those who aren’t familiar with organization?

Ed Reed  1:59
Absolutely. So Fair Count is a nonprofit 501c3 organization, nonpartisan organization. And we’re one of the only nonprofits in the country that we devote 24/7, all of our work is devoted to just census outreach and education. And so, you know, we have a staff now of about 23 people, you know, most of them are in the field across the state of Georgia. Working in hard to count communities but our mission, you know, we’re dedicated to to partner with hard to count communities to achieve a fair and accurate count of all people, but particularly in the hard to count communities. But we also want to make sure that we’re strengthening communities for further and greater civic participation in the future. And so we sort of have a multi-tiered approach and we’re, you know, looking at the education and outreach for the 2020 Census. We have a Field program. We have a Community Based program. We have a Faith based program, we’re reaching out to communities and places of worship. But we also have a Digital program and a Technology component that we’ll be looking to engage people with as well. So it’s sort of an creative and innovative way to make sure we’re engaging people. Of course, there are a lot of other organizations that are doing really great work as relates to the census. But a lot of them are also doing multiple things. So they they’re working in a lot of different other spaces as well. But we, we concentrate all of our time on making sure that we’re engaging people and educating them on what the census actually means for their community. What does it mean for their household? So why is it so important for everyone to participate in the census? Yeah, so you know, it’s easy to kind of forget about the significance and importance because it only happens every decade. And so oftentimes, you know, every 10 years, we’ve got to put it back in the main focus of everybody. But the census, you know, is instrumental in providing data that allocates funding for over a trillion dollars annually to states, counties, cities, towns. In addition to that, census data is used to drive reapportionment at the congressional level and redistricting. All of that based on the numbers and calculated by the census data. But even down just a little bit lower and localized and a little bit better, you know, businesses use it for an economic development tool when determining, you know, whether or not they’re going to relocate a business into certain communities. If they see it, you know, that the populations are declining, maybe they won’t relocate there. But so that’s why it’s really important that we have a fair and accurate count. We don’t want to undercount because undercount says that, you know, the census count is actually not depicting what actually is in that particular community. We know in Georgia in 2010, there was they were achieved the count of 72%, which is sort of the lower threshold of other states. And so we believe that, you know, in 2020, we can do a lot better than that. And so, you know, we’re aimed at working with partners and community based programs to make sure that we’re we’re raising that that threshold. But it really is there are so many different reasons as to why it’s important. We’d like to talk about health care and education and economic development of a bit, you know, healthcare. through some of my efforts in the field, we found that, you know, in Clay County, Georgia, in Southwest Georgia, for instance, there’s only one medical provider for the entire county. And that county also has, you know, historic undercount. And so we feel that if the county itself were had a fair and accurate count, perhaps they’d received more federal funding for healthcare services, and education services and at the educational level. We’d like to use the example of overcrowding in classrooms. And that’s something that that’s dear to most people who have children that are in school.

You know, school divisions are, they’re estimating enrollment based on a lot of census data. And if you know, if we’re not counting kids, and so we know that zero to five, ages zero to five are one of the more undercounted populations. And so if parents are, for whatever reason, leaving the kids off of the census form and not counting them, school divisions don’t have an accurate and true depiction of who lives in that community and what services they need to provide. So then we lead to overcrowding in the classroom. So we try to make it you know, relatable to everybody. Because, you know, potholes, infrastructure, all of that drived by funding that is, most of the time is provided federally down to states and cities.

Mickey Desai  6:45
Ed I’ve got to ask what may be a silly question, and that is, why does it seem so difficult to get accurate census data?

Ed Reed  6:54
Yeah, so they’re, you know, they’re a myths about why people you know, refuse to give their information. You know, there are a great number of suspicions about releasing information now in this day and age to the government. There are also privacy concerns and security concerns. I’ll note that, you know, the 2020 census would be the first time that the census is online, and primarily online. And so a lot of households, we get an initial invitation to complete the census online. But there are a lot of people that are skeptical about doing that. We do know that the process that the Census Bureau has put in place, it’s safe, it’s tested and trusted. So, you know, we are in fact, encouraging people to be proactive, you know, don’t wait till you you have to get a knock at the door eventually. But just go online and complete your information. You won’t have to worry about hearing from them because you’ve already done what you need to do. But there are a number of reasons. You know, there are a lot of different scenarios as it relates to residency criteria for the census. So sometimes people are unsure if they should count this person. Or not count this person, you know, the census really wants you to count anybody that’s breathing, you know, in the United States on census day, April 1, 2020. Anybody out of the womb, so zero to five and you’re breathing, you should be counted. And that’s why it was a lot of questions around the citizenship question and whether or not that would be added to the census form. We’re grateful that that question will not appear on the census form in 2020. But a lot of the perception around that question has already in the damage around that has already been done, particularly for a lot of immigrant communities. They don’t want to put down that type of information on the form and we also feel that they shouldn’t have to. But if you’re an undocumented immigrant, in Georgia, you should still be filling out the census form. And it’s safe to do so because that information cannot be shared.

Mickey Desai  8:54
Interesting. Okay. Thank you.

Susan Cooper  8:58
So can you can you dive a little bit deeper into who is counted. You said anyone who’s breathing, but it’s done by household and you know, obviously, not everyone lives in a house but that also counts apartments and people who may be couch-surfing. Can you kind of dive a little deeper into like, really the nitty gritty of who needs to be counted?

Ed Reed  9:19
Sure. So you know, if you’re in an apartment that’s considered a household, so somebody, whoever the head of household is, will get the form, they’ll be able to include X amount of people that are living in that household, are residing in that household at the time. And again, the Census Bureau uses the date of April 1 as a general criteria. So the general rule of thumb is if that person is on your couch, on April 1, and they should be counted on your form. And there are certain other criteria for you know, people that may be experiencing homelessness at that particular time in the Census Bureau has a process in place for the enumeration process for for shelters and people that don’t have a home. There are also processes in place for people that live in what the the Census Bureau considers to be group quarters. And that will be your colleges, your universities and which is a really interesting thing that we’d like to make sure that we point out at it. If you’re an on campus student living at a college or university, there’s no need for you to fill out the census form. Because the administrators on that campus or that college, they will submit in total enumeration to the Census Bureau. The difference is if you’re living off campus, like I was 10 years ago, then you are required to submit a census form and be counted on your own. You’d have to do that if you’re if you’re living off campus. And so that distinction sometimes is a little bit difficult to convey. The other piece of it is what if your parents counted you on their form even though you’re at college, which happens and sometimes that leads to what’s considered an over account in some cases. So there are a lot of different scenarios. But you know, those are some of the major the major ones that exist and we get a lot of questions about on it on a daily basis. But the general rule of thumb is wherever you are living and breathing on, and residing on April 1st is where you should be considering yourself to do. Or in a lot of places, there are assisted living facilities, a lot of them are considered to be group quarters. If you’re spending most of the time of the year at that facility, then you should be counted there.

Susan Cooper  11:36
So my next question, I think, really gets at the heart of what you know, the Inclusion Catalyst podcast is all about: Why is an accurate count of underrepresented communities particularly important for the census?

Ed Reed  11:51
Yeah, this goes back again to you know, fair and accurate accounts and what it means for funding what it means for political representation for these communities that are sometimes left out of the process. You know, we’re at a certain time and in our society where, you know, having an accurate count of the population of rural communities is really important – a make or break for some of these communities. You know, we know that most of the hardest to count communities in Georgia are actually not in metro Atlanta. They’re actually in middle and South Georgia. And so we’ve concentrated a lot of our work and working with these communities to make sure that they understand what it means and what it means to be organized around the 2020 census. But the latter part of our mission actually goes to the fact of how do we strengthen civic participation for the future. And so one of the cooler unique things that we do at Fair Count is that I mentioned that this is the first time that it’s online in 2020, is we’re setting up mobile hotspots, and Chromebooks and iPads, internet installs at locations across the entire state where people will be able to go to complete the census online where people can go right now to apply for census jobs. We know that over half a million census jobs are gonna be available across the entire country, a lot of them right here in Georgia. And the Census Bureau is having a pretty difficult time finding enough applicants in middle in South Georgia. And so we’re deploying our organizers and our volunteers to those areas to make sure that they have the the resources and infrastructure. But our goal is to have 150 of these locations up and running by the end of you know, by the end of enumeration. And at this point, we’re at about 65 locations. And generally, you know, you see organizations come in and after an initiative is over, then they’re pack up and leave. But we’re leaving this infrastructure in these communities even after the census is done. Even after the non response follow up period is done. The these organizations, these entities, these churches that have these resources, they’ll be able to keep those Chromebooks, those iPads and use them. You know, we’re not looking to be sorta extractive coming in for communities, we’re looking to keep that infrastructure in place for whatever they want to do in the future. And we found for some entities and organization that they want to use the Chromebooks in the future for resume building workshops. They want to use them for a career building workshops. And so we’re, you know, that’s one of the more impactful pieces of what we’re doing is to empower these communities with these resources and infrastructure that they can use even after the census come and gone.

Mickey Desai  14:42
Yep. Interesting. So there’s a built in way to even further the mission.

Ed Reed  14:47
Correct.

Susan Cooper  14:48
So part of the mission being civic participation, can you maybe give some examples of what that means for people’s lives and how it will impact communities to have more participation.

Ed Reed  15:01
Yeah, you know, what we’ve found is, you know, we’ve been encouraging communities and organizations to create what the Census Bureau considers a complete count committee. And oftentimes we think about the word committee and that means a very formal organization or entity but you know, we an HOA could be a complete count committee, a civic organization could be a complete count committee, a fraternity or sorority or church, a business. So we’ve been working with, you know, people from all walks of life to create these complete count committees and work with them to organize to educate, you know, their respective communities and neighborhoods as relates to the census. And so, at fair count what we have and what we call really a super volunteer or count captains. And you’ll see that on our website is we’re, we’ve been recruiting heavily to get these count captains in place across the state. And we’ve had hundreds of people that are interested in being them. And really what they are, they’re going to be the mouthpiece for their respective community or neighborhood or their business or their organization. And to make sure that they’re disseminating information as it relates to the census. Our hope is also that, you know, people will, through this process understand exactly what the census means on a daily basis. Just because we only conduct a census count every 10 years, that doesn’t mean that, you know, we’re not having a daily impact on the census. And it’s not being used on a daily impact even after the count’s being done. And so our hope is that, that type of that type of empowerment will continue to go on. The other piece of about that is, you know, making sure that the infrastructure is here for 2030. You shouldn’t have to start from scratch again in 10 years from now and that that infrastructure should be there and people will know exactly what they need to do. We do recognize that there are some challenges to the 2020 Census. You know, funding is not at the same level at the federal level as it was in 2010. And so there are some cuts that have been made even to enumerators and the enumerators of people that traditionally come around and knock on your door. We’ve been told that the knocks at the door will be cut, cut down tremendously. So, you know, we certainly think that, you know, we want people to be proactive, and completing the census, which is why we’re directing them to go online to that safe space to be able to do that. Because they may not get that reminder at the door like they’re used to in the past. They oftentimes will talk about the census, people often think about people coming around to their door and take an account that way and, and that just that won’t happen in all cases this time around.

Mickey Desai  17:41
It’s amazing to me that indirectly, the funding cuts have made it difficult to figure out who exactly is in our country.

Ed Reed  17:49
Yeah, absolutely.

Susan Cooper  17:51
So I noticed on your website, FairCount.org, you highlight three sort of topic areas that you’re focusing on Healthcare, Education, and Economic Development. I wondered if you could sort of touch on each of those and what the impact is on health care and education and economic development, because I think people sometimes think of in the census in terms of the redistricting and just general population numbers. But it has real everyday impacts on everyone’s life.

Ed Reed  18:24
Right. Yeah. You know, so I mentioned initially that, you know, the census impacts of over a trillion dollars of funding annually to cities and towns and states. And that’s made up of over 300 federal and state programs indirectly and both directly and some of those include Medicaid, Medicaid, funding, SNAP. All  those type of programs are dependent upon figuring out who resides in particular areas and where the need is. You know the Census Bureau always talks about the dollars, they don’t necessarily follow the need, as we would like them to. They follow the numbers. And so if the numbers are not fair and accurate, then you know, the perhaps the money is not going where the greatest need is. And so we would like to make that, draw that connection. So when we talk about healthcare, I talked about Clay County, Georgia, that’s just one, you know, small example of, you know, the difference that having an accurate count in that county can make in terms of services that can be provided at the federal level in terms of you know, clinics and free clinics and, and free services at the health care level. The education one, they’re very vast in terms of education funding and different types of mechanisms that come down from the federal level. But they do the enrollment piece is probably the biggest, the biggest one in terms of, you know, estimating who, who’s gonna be in the class that year is based on the Census data. And so we also know that the Census Bureau intermittently of the through the 10 years, they do through the American Community Survey they do and so sort of updates to that. And not everybody gets that survey, but that helps them kind of update the information. So sometimes if you look in you’ll see some census data could be based on, you know, 2012 or, or 2016. And you say, Oh, well, we didn’t do a census count, perhaps in that year, but that data came from the American Community Survey, which is sort of a break off offset of the overall census that happens in every household and in 2020.

And then economic development. One is one that we you know, a lot of people don’t talk about as much but, you know, local governments we’ve seen this year 2020 and 2019. As communities were prepping for the census, a lot of local governments and cities and counties are taking the initiative to create the complete count committee. To make sure that they’re even in a lot of cases allocating a budget to do census outreach and education to their constituents because they recognize that the only way that they’re going to continue to go upward in a positive trajectory with economic development is to ensure that the numbers are fair and accurate. In one city in Georgia, for instance, we’ve been working with it the complete count committee level. They believe that their numbers in 2010 were really under counted. And so they’ve been really on the ball to make sure that they’re engaging their constituents this time around to make sure there’s a fair, fair and accurate count. And so I do agree with you that you know, a lot of times people think about the larger the reapportionment the redistricting, and that’s very important as well. But I’d plead to most people walking, you know, around every day and the daily basis, like there’s some way that the census is impacting, you know, people complain a lot about potholes. You know, it’s funny, the funding from the federal government in terms of transportation and infrastructure, again, that doesn’t necessarily follow the need, but it follows the numbers. And so of your communities is running rampant with potholes, it could be that maybe there is an inaccurate count. And you know, and that’s why the funding is not there for the need.

Mickey Desai  22:20
I wonder how many of my own friends would draw a connection between the census count and pothole repair funds?

Susan Cooper  22:29
Well, and we live in Atlanta, everyone here has something to say about traffic.

Ed Reed  22:32
Right, right. Yeah, exactly. It gets you thinking. I mean, just to think that it only takes several minutes to complete the census form. So you know, it’s not a huge undertaking, in and of itself.

Susan Cooper  22:47
So can you tell us some about some of your programs I noticed on the website also, there’s Black Men Count, Tech Solutions and Faith Community Partnerships. Can you touch on each one of them?

Ed Reed  22:59
Yeah. I’ll touch on those all yes, those are true and dear to my heart, as you know, the ranking the programmatic team. And so I work with in those spaces every day, but so the Black Me Count initiative is one that we launched back in May. You know, there are roughly by the Urban Institute did a report and they estimated that roughly 67,000 black men could go under counted in 2020. And Georgia alone. That number, you know, the Urban Institute, they also did a study that shows that for every person in Georgia, that’s not counted. The state and cities, they lose $2300 in funding for that person. So if you do the math there at 67,000 black men only, that comes to be about $154 Million on an annual basis that we’ve been losing out. And so we saw a need to make sure that we were coming up with a way to engage black men in the process and so created this complete count committees composed of about 35 black men from across the state of Georgia. They are from every geographical corner of the state. They we have some faith leaders, we have some elected officials, we have a barber. We have, you know, people that are returning citizens. We have young folks, we have students, we try to get a really creative and innovative bunch of folks together to come up with some ways on how we can engage populations around the being active. And so one of the things that that we did was, you know, we figured out that we needed to really meet people where they were to be able to talk to them about the census. So we’ve just started a series called Black Men Speak, where we’re going to go into barber shops, and we’re going to go into different spaces, to have conversations with black men on what it means to be counted in the census and what type of myths and perceptions are out there and why you should not be counted. And then our hope is that we can dispel a lot of those and in turn be able to determine people to be counted. And so that’s, that’s a really cool initiative that we have. And I encourage you to go to our, we have a website just for Black Men Count. That’s www.blackmencount.org. Or you can find out more information about that and sign up to get updates as relates to that. We do have a Faith program and department are on our team, our faith coordinator works with in all denominations. And in fact, we have a face to face days of action coming up this weekend, actually tomorrow and Sunday across the state where we’ll be working with houses of worship and places of faith to make sure that people can apply for those good paying census jobs that I mentioned earlier. And so a lot of these locations we’ve installed the internet and installed devices that they’ll be able to use on Saturday and Sunday to to apply for those jobs. And so you can find out more information about that at FairCount.org Well, the reason why we expanded the the internet installs to 150 years because we did an initial pilot program with the AME Church of Georgia, where we installed the internet in 25 AME churches and we saw that you know how well that worked and the need for that. So it was like, well, we can actually expand even beyond churches into organizations into businesses. But that started in our, in our Faith department. We also have a faith toolkit on our website where, you know, houses of worship and people of faith can go to figure out how they can organize their church or their synagogue or their boss to be able to turn out the count in 2020. I talked a little bit about the Tech piece of what we’re doing in the solution based programs there. So I won’t I won’t touch a lot on that. But you can find out more about that, of course, the website as well. That’s a really innovative thing. And we’ve you know, we’ve kind of been talking about that across the entire state, but we have a mechanism in place for making sure that we are when we’re being very strategic about where we place these 150 locations, and that they’re being placed in the hard to count communities across the state. And again, I mentioned, a lot of those are in middle in South Georgia. And we know that 19% of households in Georgia lack adequate access to the internet or broadband. And a lot of those numbers are directly overlaid with the hard to count communities. And so that’s where we’ve been putting a lot of our resources and a lot of our time. And then we do have a community based program where we work with partners. We’re working on a daily basis with the Georgia Latino complete count committee, to making sure that, you know, we’re reaching all the demographics. We have national partnerships that we’re working with the Congressional Black Caucus Foundation to make sure that we’re helping with mapping in other states. We just are about to announce a partnership with the, with the some of the, the male, black male fraternities and, and that we’ll be doing some outreach with them nationally and some of the states that are generally hard to count as relates to black men. So we’re really trying to think about this and try and tackle this from a very creative and innovative approach that hasn’t been done. And, you know, in previous census counts. And the last piece is the field program that we have mentioned that we are leveraging our connections in our relationships in the field. And they’re deployed in across the entire state of Georgia. And they’re organizing on a daily basis. They’re meeting with community leaders, grass tops, grassroots leaders, to find out what the needs are and how we connect that to the census and how we can get them organized. You know, we’re really trying to make sure that we train and we hire locally, so all of our organizers are, you know, they live there from the places in which they are organized, which helps tremendously in relationship building. And so we’ve had great success and making sure that we’re organizing in the in the right place within those hard to count communities across the state. So we put all of those, all of those buckets together to reach our overall mission, our overall vision for the 2020 Census.

Mickey Desai  29:24
It’s an amazing scope of activities for sure.

Ed Reed  29:28
It keeps us busy.

Mickey Desai  29:31
So are we like to end every episode with a very simple question along the lines of how can people get involved if they want to help in in this case, are there are there volunteer other ways for people to volunteer? You’ve already touched on some paid positions, but if you could say a little bit more about that, that’d be great too.

Ed Reed  29:48
Sure. So I’ll talk about you know, paid in fact, the Census Bureau is, is hiring over half a million so you can go to, you know, our website, they get the link for applying for those jobs. But we’re also hiring at Fair Count for some organizing positions, which you can also get it FairCount.org. But on the volunteer side, we are recruiting people to be those count captains. And that’s really that super volunteer that’s looking to take a lead in their community, their church, you know, their business to make sure that they’re organized and they’re educated and, and ready for the 2020 census. And so we have a form on our website where you can submit and commit to be counted. And we’ll have one of our organizers reach out to you to make sure you get the right resources, the right training to make sure that you’re ready to go. But the main thing is really understanding that the census is right around the corner. We’re in January of 2020. Now, they at the Census Bureau will start mailing out postcards reminding people about the census in as early as March at the beginning of March. So you don’t actually have to wait until April 1 to complete it. You can be it you’ll be able to do it before then. But that’s just the general rule of thumb the date that’s used by the Census Bureau. And so we really letting folks know that we don’t have much time as it relates to getting involved. And so now is certainly the time to be counted. You know, I’ve talked about the many reasons as why, why it’s really important. But, you know, you can commit to being counted today on our website. And we’d love for everyone to do that.

Mickey Desai  31:21
Very cool. Thank you.

Susan Cooper  31:22
That was great. There’s so many it’s it’s so important. And you shared so many great resources that I hope that people do get involved. And they you know, they just talk to their friends about why they should participate, because it really means a lot to everyone in the country.

Ed Reed  31:41
Absolutely.

Mickey Desai  31:42
Yeah, I think that’s right. I think people are sort of unaware of how hugely important the census really is. And yeah, let’s, let’s make sure we, you know, help people get counted.

Ed Reed  31:52
And it’s safe and it’s easy. So you know, that’s what we’d like to tell people. It’s a safe platform to submit your information. It’s easy. It doesn’t take a lot of time. And but the ultimate impact, and the results are great. And so we want to make sure that we’re conveying that to people.

Mickey Desai  32:11
Ed thank you for taking the time for appearing on the Inclusion Catalyst podcast. I hope we can do this again sometime in the future.

Ed Reed  32:17
Sure I would love to do it once we get into the get out to count phase as we get closer to March and April.

Mickey Desai  32:23
Right, let’s do that. Let’s revisit back in that timeframe. And in the meantime, again, thank you for joining us.

Susan Cooper  32:29
Thank you so much.

Ed Reed  32:29
Absolutely.

Mickey Desai  32:31
And to our listeners, thank you for listening to this episode of the Inclusion Catalyst podcast. Check our website InclusionCatalyst.com for resources related to this cause and we will see you again with another episode and another week or two. Thank you very much.

Susan Cooper  32:46
And that’s it for this episode of Inclusion Catalyst. If you enjoyed it, please subscribe and share it with your friends and colleagues.